Do I truly believe that Jesus has all authority over this world? If so, then why am I fretting? Why am I losing sleep? Why do I have this innate need for control?
Rachel Jones joins me on the podcast to talk about the day Jesus’s authority was challenged in the synagogue. And the shocking events that unfolded next will convince you that this world’s ultimate authority belongs—not to powerful people or evil forces, but to Jesus alone.
We’re looking at one of the example texts Rachel used in her new book, The Quiet Time KickStarter. If reading the Bible is one of your goals for ’25 check out this fabulous new resource from Rachel Jones, published by The Good Book.
Where else can I listen to this podcast?
Go HERE to find this episode on your favorite podcast app, including Apple, Google, Spotify, and more.
Guest: Rachel Jones
Bible Passage: Jesus Drives Out an Impure Spirit – Mark 1:21-28 NIV
Get your Free Resource: False Narrative Watchlist
Recommended Resources:
- Check out Rachel’s new book, “The Quiet Time Kickstart” on Shannon’s Amazon Storefront HERE
- “God’s Word for You” Bible Commentaries
Resound Media Network: www.ResoundMedia.cc
Music: Cade Popkin
Rachel Jones
Connect with Rachel:
Key Takeaways
- Engaging with the Bible requires prayer and reliance on the Holy Spirit.
- Understanding the context of scripture is crucial for interpretation.
- Jesus taught with authority, unlike the teachers of the law.
- Jesus’ authority is demonstrated through his teachings and miracles.
- Living under Jesus’ authority means submitting to his word in all aspects of life.
- The power of God’s word can transform lives and provide guidance.
More Episodes in Season 10:
Episode Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Rachel Jones and Her Work
02:45 Exploring the Quiet Time Kickstart Book
06:13 Building a Bible Reading Habit
08:56 Understanding Authority in Jesus’ Teaching
12:14 The Encounter with the Impure Spirit
15:52 The Spiritual Realm and Its Implications
18:37 The Authority of Jesus
20:33 The Gradual Revelation of Identity
22:25 The Astonishment of the Crowd
25:14 Misconceptions of Authority
28:07 Living Under Jesus’ Authority
Episode Transcript
The following transcript is AI generated. Please excuse any errors or inconsistencies.
Read the Transcript
Shannon Popkin (00:00) Rachel Jones, welcome to Live Like It’s True.
Rachel Jones (00:03) Thank you, it’s pleasure to be here.
Shannon Popkin (00:05) And already off the bat, we know that you are not from the United States. I just, I love your accent. It’s so fun. So, yes, I know. the UK is where you’re from.
Rachel Jones (00:10) Hahaha
Thank you, thank you. I’ve been working on it all my life.
Shannon Popkin (00:21) from Surrey, UK, yes.
Rachel Jones (00:24) Yeah, on the very, very edge of Southwest London. So it’s sort of, sorry, sort of London. Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (00:28) Okay, okay.
So, which just makes you so cool But okay, so Rachel, you are an author. I have loved a brief theology of periods. Yes, really. Such a great book and such a great idea. It was so interesting. So we’ll have to have you back to talk about that book sometime. But you have written several books, including part of the Five Things to
Rachel Jones (00:47) Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (00:54) series, you’re an author in that. And then you serve as a VP in editorial at the Good Book Company. So at the Gospel Coalition, I was, the Women’s Conference, I was looking at your table there at the Good Book and I had a friend next to me and I’m like, I love this one and I love this one. And I said, I just really love all of the Good Books because, they do such a great job of curating, great topics and they keep them succinct
They catch you with great ideas and then whoever the man was at the table, he’s like, yes, and more of that please. He appreciated my great love for the good book.
Rachel Jones (01:30) Yeah, you’ve got the brand message right there. Yeah, no,
it’s a real joy to work for the Good Book Company. Yeah, I get to read Christian books for a living and chat to authors and it’s a real joy to be part of what the Lord’s doing here.
Shannon Popkin (01:48) Okay, so one of my favorite series is the For You series, you I love these commentaries. they’re less, you some commentaries, I think they just dive in so deep that you kind of lose the force for the trees, you know? And so I feel like these books are written great for lay people like me, right? I don’t have a seminary degree, but these are authors who are kind of taking…
Rachel Jones (02:08) Mm-hmm.
Shannon Popkin (02:13) the passage and helping and not just doing such a deep dive drilling down in one section or one verse, but they’re helping to tie the book together, in the way that is helpful when you’re teaching the Bible or when you’re writing about the Bible. like this one is by Tim Keller, it’s Romans for you, but I have like probably 15 or so of these on my shelf produced by The Good Book.
Rachel Jones (02:36) I too use them. They’re my sort of go-to, my go-to first resource if I’m trying to work on a passage, definitely.
Shannon Popkin (02:36) Okay.
Yes, yeah. Yes.
Yeah, they’re so good. just want our listeners to know about that. So we’re going to talk though today about the Quiet Time Kickstart, Six Weeks to a Healthy Bible Habit. And this is your latest book.
it will probably have released them by the time that this comes out. And so you’re who are you writing this book for?
Rachel Jones (03:06) It’s really written for people who would like to have a daily Bible reading routine, but are currently out of the habit or have struggled to kind of maintain that over the years, or who just don’t really know where to start when it comes to reading the Bible.
Shannon Popkin (03:23) And I mean, I get that question quite a bit. Like, is there a place to start? do you have a resource? And so now I do. I’m going to be recommending this one. I think it’s great. It’s just a thin little book, right? And it’s it’s very succinct, but it will kickstart you and get you going, the right direction. It’s not going to hold your hand all the way, but it will give you the first steps. And so you compared it to you talked about wanting to be a runner.
Rachel Jones (03:35) Yep.
Shannon Popkin (03:49) admiring runners, but you didn’t know how to get started. So what was your, yeah, what was your comparison there?
Rachel Jones (03:55) Yeah, so for years I would watch my, well my sister and my sister-in-law go out for a run, know, at Christmas time and everyone’s sort of stuck in the house and and I’d watch them go out for a run and then come back, sort of sweaty but invigorated. I used to think, I’d like to be a runner, but I just, I’ve just never ran. I don’t really know how or yeah, it’s not a thing that I do.
And then a couple of years ago in the summer, I had a bit more time on my hands. So I did the couch to 5K program, which is something quite popular over here. And so it’s basically like an audio thing and it builds you up. So you start off just running 90 seconds at a time and then walking and you’ve got sort of like a celebrity coach in your ears that you can choose the one you want. Yeah, you get to pick and gradually.
Shannon Popkin (04:28) Okay. Mm-hmm. Yep.
okay. Who did you choose?
Who was your, okay.
Rachel Jones (04:46) I think a comedian called Miranda Hart here in the UK. yeah,
gradually over the weeks, you do more running and less walking. And the idea is that by the end of it, you’ve gradually built up to being able to run for 30 minutes straight. yeah, it just struck me that this would be maybe a helpful approach as well to read in the Bible. So the resource, it starts small.
and it builds up, that’s really the heart of it. So the first week, you’re literally just reading one or two verses, and there’s just one or two questions So really the sort of thing that you can literally do in three minutes, because it’s hard to build a habit, it’s hard to make the time. But the idea is just starting really small and then building up.
Shannon Popkin (05:32) Yeah, well, and finding that success, it feels good when you’ve accomplished something, right? And so you’re giving your readers just a sense of accomplishment. Okay, I did day one, that was like five minutes, right? I can do this, I did day two. So you’re kind of the voice in their ears, but more on the page, right? As they’re, yes, yes. So as they’re getting started, and I loved all those little.
Rachel Jones (05:49) Yeah, I am the coach. Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (05:56) like it looks like handwritten notes in the margin, where you’re giving them guidance. See, one of the ones that I liked was you give them a little prayer before they get started. And you said, so often I dive into the scriptures just in my own strength, my own power, but I’m not going to understand if there’s not supernatural help
Like we’re not reading just to know things. We’re reading that our life might be transformed. And that is not going to be happening in my own power. I need outside help. And so I’ve got to pray. so yeah, just these little handwritten notes I thought those were so helpful. It’s really good.
Rachel Jones (06:28) Thank you. Yeah, and just really trying to give people the confidence and the encouragement that If you have the Spirit, if you’re a believer, then God wants to speak to you through His Word. so, yeah, week by week trying to build up some of those skills as well in terms of how do we read the Bible? How do we understand it? What’s good approach to take when we’re faced with a passage?
Shannon Popkin (06:52) I remember one of them was, your tip for when you’re struggling to focus? I liked that one.
Rachel Jones (06:57) I think it’s that I read it aloud if I just, know, if my eyes are glazing over and the eyes are moving down the page, but the words are not playing in my head, then yeah.
Shannon Popkin (07:06) Yes, yes, I have had that. I’ll be like, wait,
how many pages have I turned without actually thinking about what I’m reading?
Rachel Jones (07:13) Yeah, so sometimes
it’s just to read it aloud, because then the words are definitely going to play in your head. Even this morning, was struggling to of absorb. So yeah, just picking up a pen and outlining, what the main points… These can be really helpful ways of engaging.
Shannon Popkin (07:29) I think so many people would like to read the Bible and yet don’t. And I imagine even some of the listeners on this podcast, it’s like maybe you’re plugging into a podcast instead of actually opening your Bible. I always say at the end, like, now open your Bible, like go to your Bible. we really want for you to interact. Like we don’t have the power.
You know, Rachel has no power, And I have no power. God has, there is power available for you, but you have to open it yourself. that’s really the goal of this little book. Or if you’re discipling somebody,
So, but by the end of the book, okay, you’re like launching your students to read the book of Mark. You’ve set them up, you’ve got them, I think by the end of the book, have they looked at chapter one? Is that correct?
Rachel Jones (08:13) Yeah, yeah.
Shannon Popkin (08:14) And the whole book is on Mark. You start us out, think in Corinthians or no, Thessalonians. Yes.
Rachel Jones (08:19) So it starts out in one Thessalonians, which
is definitely a book that I feel gets less airtime than others. And it’s written to quite new believers in quite difficult situation. And then it goes to two Thessalonians, which gets even less airtime and possibly contains one of the hardest chapters in the whole New Testament. So that’s really thinking about, okay, what do we do when we find Bible passages that we’re just completely stumped by? What do we do when we have that kind of quiet time?
Shannon Popkin (08:25) yeah, interesting.
Yes!
Rachel Jones (08:47) and trying to think helpfully about that.
Shannon Popkin (08:48) Okay. Okay, so
you have not just randomly selected here. You’ve been purposeful and intentional. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rachel Jones (08:56) Yeah, I hope so. hope so.
Yeah, and then we do the Book of Ruth to try and think about Old Testament and how to read that. then, yeah, start off with Mark. And then the idea is once you’ve finished Mark chapter one with me, then what you need to know to keep going.
Shannon Popkin (09:12) Very good. Okay, so I suggested a little narrative section from Mark 1 for us to talk about and just to kind of model, like, how do we go about this? And I love, okay, you’ve got three questions that you’re suggesting that Bible readers have in mind with every passage that they turn to. Do you want to just give us a high level summary of those? They’re very similar to what we do here and Live Like It’s True.
Rachel Jones (09:37) Yeah,
it’s very simply what, where and why. So what does this say? What are the headlines? Where does this fit both in this book and in the kind of Bible’s overall storyline? And then why? Why is this here for its first readers? Why does God want me to hear this? Why? How is this interacting with my life today?
Shannon Popkin (09:58) let’s think about that second one. Where does this fit? So Mark, this is right at the beginning of Mark. Mark is one of the gospels where we’re being introduced to Jesus. And Mark, I love Mark because it’s so fast paced. He’s an excellent storyteller. And one of his favorite words, you’re an editor, Rachel, so you know that authors always have their favorite words. By the way, mine, I was meeting with a group of writers and…
Rachel Jones (10:11) Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Shannon Popkin (10:23) we were talking about this concept of how we have favorite words and my editor happened to be there she’s like, yeah, Shannon’s word is feathery. I’m like, what? She’s like.
Rachel Jones (10:31) that’s quite unusual.
Shannon Popkin (10:34) That’s such a
weird word and you used it like four times in the same book. She’s like, it was like very, was like, my goodness. So very, very strange word, But Mark’s favorite word is immediately. You know, it’s like immediately. Now you chose the NIV translation and they don’t use the word immediately. But I noticed that when I was reading it in the ESV, it’s like three times in the same passage he uses immediately. Like he likes it fast-paced. Things are.
Rachel Jones (10:46) Mm.
Shannon Popkin (10:58) happening here. the scene’s changing quickly. He uses, brevity with words and he uses very startling words or very emotion driven words, so he’d be a great movie screenplay writer if he lived in our generation. But in his generation, he’s writing about Jesus, the most important story of all. And so Mark 1, he is introducing us to Jesus. He’s just told us about
Rachel Jones (11:10) Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (11:21) Jesus’ baptism and his time in the wilderness and now Jesus is re-entering and everything has changed. know, Jesus went from being this anonymous person that nobody really knew his true identity and now that is all about to shift. And so that’s really the backstory for this passage we’re going to look at. And so it’s Mark 1, 21 through 28. Could you read that for us in the NIV translation?
Rachel Jones (11:46) Yeah. They went to Capernaum and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. The people were amazed at his teaching because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. Just then, a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out, what do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the Holy One of God.
Be quiet, said Jesus sternly. Come out of him. The impure spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek. The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, what is this? A new teaching and with authority. He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him. News about him spread quickly over the whole region of Galilee.
Shannon Popkin (12:41) Okay, so this is such an interesting introduction to Jesus. It happens in a synagogue, which they, synagogue isn’t the same as church. It was sort of like a little community building built around the Jewish faith and traditions. And this is where they would gather though for teaching. And Jesus is like this new rabbi. He’s just stepping onto the scene. And so rabbis who traveled would be invited to teach.
So what do you think is most surprising to these people as they hear this rabbi?
Rachel Jones (13:13) I think we see that in verse 22, the people were amazed at his teaching because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. So rabbis in those days, sort of a series of quotes of other rabbis, know, Rabbi So-and-so says this, Rabbi So-and-so says this, and that was the way they did their teaching. But Jesus isn’t appealing to the authority of someone else.
he’s the one with authority as he’s teaching. He’s the one speaking from God. And so that seems to be what they are most surprised about, about Jesus’ teaching, that he is the one who has authority.
Shannon Popkin (13:54) yeah, I actually came across this video by a guy named Brad Gray with Walking the Text and he has studied in Jerusalem and I came across this video that he did on authority and I sent it to all my Bible teacher friends. I thought it was so important because
there are all of these challenges to Jesus’s authority. Like who is this and what sort of authority does he have? We hear it in throughout all of the gospels. And it’s true that, he was speaking authoritatively, but this went against their custom. So what Brad Gray was saying was like there were scribes and they just basically, like you said, like they restated, they re-quoted whatever other people had done. But then there were these other rabbis who had this,
So they had this authority and the only way that and so if you had this authority you could introduce new teachings so you weren’t quoting somebody else you could introduce new like interpretations of the text but the only way that you could have this authority is if you got it from somebody else who had authority. So there would be like this ordination council
where they would confer authority from one rabbi with reshoot to another rabbi with reshoot. And so their question about Jesus is like, who gave you this authority? When was your ordination? When was this conferred? know, there is no backstory and basically Jesus then points them to God. God is the one who’s given him this authority. But this is really outside of their custom.
Rachel Jones (15:19) I was going to say is that a cool echo then of the baptism of Jesus? that is his ordination, that is God giving him the authority of the Spirit.
Shannon Popkin (15:23) Yes!
Yes, that is exactly what Brad said. This was his ordination and God spoke from heaven. So God is conferring authority. And we just had this in Mark one, right? but the people like this is very un-customary and very surprising to them and almost like, like they’re drawn to it. I’m sure that the sermon was amazing.
I wish that he would tell us what he taught. Wouldn’t that be fun? I would really like those sermon notes. That’d be really interesting to hear what he taught about. Anything else, that’s interesting or surprising here?
Rachel Jones (16:00) Well, the surprise for us probably as Western, 21st century readers is the presence of this impure spirit, this demonic force. I think that probably would have been less surprising for Mark’s first readers, but certainly for us today that perhaps is what’s to kind of strike us on first reading. Because, most modern people are materialists. We just believe that
Shannon Popkin (16:13) Yes.
Rachel Jones (16:24) sort of atoms are all there are, know, it’s just the material world. And even I think lots of us as Christians, we’re sort of materialist plus God, you know, we have a category for God that he’s supernatural. But yeah, definitely all through the Bible, there’s this sort of assumption, this kind of shared understanding that there’s this spiritual realm full of other created beings, non-human created beings.
Shannon Popkin (16:26) Right, right.
you
Yeah, it seems like there is a lot of demon possession and oppression you almost picture like, this guy, says just then a man in their synagogue. And notice the just then or immediately like Mark is telling a story and it’s fast paced. Like I pictured Jesus’s teaching in the synagogue and
it’s interrupted like just then a man, and he cries out and he’s like interrupting what’s happening here in this synagogue. And he is possessed. so this is a man whose life has been taken over he’s no longer in control. This is a demonic a takeover. And not only taking over this man’s life, but now
He’s confronting the son of God. this is a demon who’s one of the fallen angels confronting, and he’s gonna tell us right here, he knows who this is. this is pretty bold.
This demonic influence is confronting Jesus. I find that very, interesting, yes?
Rachel Jones (17:48) Yeah,
and definitely that sense you get that these demons are threatened by Jesus. know, like, what do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? So there’s this definite sense that as Jesus is teaching, that is unsettling these demons, that is an affront to their authority. And of course, we see that play out as Jesus casts the demons out of this man.
and again the people are left marvelling. He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him. know for them it’s less surprising that this demon was here but they are wowed that Jesus just with a word, no theatrics and again like you can read up on all the kind of exorcism practices of the first century, that kind of thing. But there’s definitely this sense that this is not hard for Jesus.
Shannon Popkin (18:21) Yeah!
Okay.
Right.
Rachel Jones (18:44) because he is that one with total authority.
Shannon Popkin (18:47) Yeah, right, he just says basically shut up and get out of here. Like he’s, you know, be quiet. This is like a power flex from this demon, but Jesus like smacked out, know, shut up and come out of him and the demon has no choice. here, if there is a power play, like Jesus is the one who comes out.
ahead, which of course he will, he’s God, he’s the creator, he can speak and the world is created, that’s how powerful Jesus’s words are. But I think it’s interesting too that this is like the origin story the hero story, right?
you know, like with Spider-Man, where he gets bit by the spider and then he’s kind of anonymous, but then suddenly he starts doing these things and you’re like, this is Spider-Man. Well, this is Jesus. He’s like coming out from anonymity and he’s stepping into the public sphere. This is one of the first, this is the first story in Mark’s gospel. And they don’t know who he is. he’s just been walking in anonymity. Like imagine.
Like they’ve had God walking around in Capernaum and they don’t know it, right? But this man does know it. Jesus starts teaching and they’re astonished. They don’t know who he is. So they’re astonished at the teaching. This man, he knows who this is though, he says, I know who you are. I know.
Rachel Jones (19:50) Yeah.
But we also get that other kind of key theme in Mark, in that Jesus tells him to be quiet in the sense that he doesn’t want people yet to know that identity. know, you get this, again, you see this lots of times as you read on, this idea of like hiddenness and then being revealed and this idea that this isn’t the time yet for Jesus to sort of reveal himself And that comes later on.
Shannon Popkin (20:17) Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jesus is content to let the time pass, to let God, determine the timeline. And it doesn’t have to be rushed. he steps into the public sphere, but it’s okay with him that this unfolds gradually. Like, he knows that this is going to be offensive and
And he is going to be the fork in the road where are you going to let God have authority in your life or are you going to hold on to the authority given to you by God? the Pharisees and the scribes are going to do that. And so, I think that’s so beautiful that he’s content. Like it’s okay that I don’t let everybody know who I am.
and what I can do right now. Like just little glimpses.
But again, like we’ve said, Jesus, he has all of the power. And then in verse 26, the impure spirit shakes the man and comes out. So there’s a lot of drama here. This is very, like they’re all, mouths open. I know, yeah, But then, and I love how Mark is constantly telling us how people are reacting.
Rachel Jones (21:28) Yeah. It is like a horror movie, isn’t it? Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (21:39) It’s sort of like how you have extras in a movie set, where something happens, but then you get how amazing this is when the people are like, you know, their faces or whatever. And so that’s what we’re getting here. The people were amazed, in verse 27. Could you read that verse one more time?
Rachel Jones (21:49) Yeah.
people were all so amazed that they asked each other what is this a new teaching and with authority he even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him
Shannon Popkin (22:07) So what are they astonished at?
Rachel Jones (22:12) They’re so interested in the teaching. Imagine teaching a session or if your pastor preached a sermon and then there was this demonic incident and then afterwards over coffee people were saying, it was a great sermon, wasn’t it? It just goes to show, I guess, quite how amazing this teaching was and quite how
Shannon Popkin (22:25) you
Right, right.
Rachel Jones (22:40) different and new and yeah, authoritative it was. That seems to be what they’re most concerned with. And that’s definitely what I guess Mark is most concerned with because right at the start he says this is the good news of Jesus, the Messiah. And then we get in verse 15 where Jesus says, the time has come, the kingdom of God has come near, repent and believe the good news.
So this is all about a message coming from the mouth of Jesus. And so it’s not surprising that that is where Mark wants to draw our attention to.
Shannon Popkin (23:20) And he wants us to be drawn to this authority, right? So the people are noting in two ways he has authority. His teaching has authority and he has authority over demons. And so he is being set up as the one who has authority. And like we’re talking about the kingdom, he’s the king, right? And he will return,
I think they had a lot of mis-assumptions where they thought that his power was going to be played out in a kingdom sort of way, where a king would take a throne and have control. And we’re not mistaken to think that. It just hasn’t happened yet, right? We have to keep the timeline, the correct timeline in our heads. there will be a day when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, He is the King. He will…
arrange his kingdom and everything will align under him and we await that day with great anticipation but there will be some people who are surprised on that day too, right? Yeah, yeah.
Rachel Jones (24:14) Mm-hmm.
And Jesus’ authority is good. Here he’s casting out these demonic powers. In the next passage, it’s Simon’s mother-in-law with a fever, and again, immediately it leaves her. so, yeah, Jesus has all authority, but he is not a dictator, and he is not using it for ill. He’s…
Shannon Popkin (24:21) Yes. Yes.
Yes, uh-huh. Yeah,
Right.
No.
Rachel Jones (24:38) Life
under his rule is life as it was meant to be and as we deeply want it to be. A life free from evil and sickness and suffering in that kingdom to come. Not yet now, but one day it will be.
Shannon Popkin (24:53) Yes, order, flourishing, beauty, right? There’s a man disrupting, and going back to what you said, like, just picture you’re in a church service and somebody’s teaching and somebody rushes up to the front and confronts the pastor preaching, like, that would be, yes, you wouldn’t just like over your tea, like, wasn’t that a lovely message today? Did I get that accent? Okay, Rachel.
Rachel Jones (24:56) Yeah.
What I liked though was your hand movement on the cup of tea.
Shannon Popkin (25:17) Was that very British?
So yeah, I mean, this has been shocking. This has been very surprising. And what is being established here is Jesus’ authority. So is there any false narratives of the world that the story corrects?
Rachel Jones (25:32) Yeah, I was thinking a little bit about how, it’s easy to see that, you sort of think that Jesus came to give us good advice or that he is content to be an optional add-on, that he can offer some interesting things on certain topics. But, you sort of take it or leave it. And yeah, this just absolutely counters that Jesus’s words are authoritative.
Shannon Popkin (25:55) Yes.
Rachel Jones (25:57) and they have power and he’s the main man in this room, in this synagogue and yeah, he deserves that authority in our lives as well as we submit to him and to his words.
Shannon Popkin (26:14) Yeah, it’s easy to look in on them and say, well, they were getting talked to because he didn’t fit in their box. He didn’t fit in their mold. And he does have authority and like, yeah, go Jesus. But man, when that happens in my life, that’s it’s a little bit harder. It’s a little bit harder to adjust to recognize like, no, actually, I don’t have authority. I don’t have authority over my money. I don’t have authority over what is true. although different ways like that we try to fit God in a box,
where we would be like, who does God think he is? Does he really think he has authority here? And so one of the ways that it came to mind in my looking at my culture is
He would allow these things to happen to good people. You know, like how could a good God, like I can’t trust a God like that who when we look at tragedies or I think we are so invested in the American dream, like having our things and having an economy that produces what we want for our lives and our children and anything that would be disruptive of that to imagine that that would come from God.
Rachel Jones (26:55) Hmm.
Shannon Popkin (27:18) in my Bible study group. last night. We were talking about the story of Joseph and how It says Joseph says to his brothers three different times in that text it says God sent me to Egypt God sent me I think we like to talk about how God allows things we don’t we don’t like God to be active in something that causes us pain and a woman a woman said that she’s like
Rachel Jones (27:32) Mm-hmm.
Shannon Popkin (27:42) well, God allows it. And I’m like, I know that’s what we love to say, isn’t it? But look, it says he sent like it’s a very active verb here. And that’s really hard for us to grapple with That’s that feels like, wait, God, do you have that authority that you would take something?
Rachel Jones (27:47) Mm.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Popkin (27:58) I don’t want something to be taken from me or some hardship to come upon me or something to happen. And yet does God have authority? He does.
Rachel Jones (28:06) Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Popkin (28:08) Any other ways that we can live like this particular story in the Bible is true. The story about Jesus being the one who has authority.
Rachel Jones (28:14) Yeah, guess we’re often tempted, aren’t we, to build our lives around other authorities. we’re so quick to kind of gurus or columnists or, experts or kind of random women on a podcast like me. and we’re in many ways, we’re quite hungry.
for advice, aren’t we? But,
Shannon Popkin (28:38) we just finished our election here in the United States and there was a lot of that. A lot of people seeking advice through podcasts and I mean, maybe less so in the word of God. And I so appreciate it because I do want to know how the word of God intersects with the challenges that we face.
Rachel Jones (28:45) Yeah
Shannon Popkin (28:59) But I appreciated those who did help me with like, let’s look at the word of God and this, let’s let this be the authority as we vote in our next president, right?
Rachel Jones (29:11) exactly that, seeking to build our lives around Jesus as the ultimate authority, and the good news of his kingdom That’s what I’m seeking to line up my life alongside, is his kingdom and what he is doing in the world.
Yeah, I’d love to be someone for whom that’s my first go to, and very often, I’m talking to this person, this person, and that’s good. it’s good to have wise counsel. That is a good thing. But yeah, I see sometimes that I’m quick to go to others and slow to go to God. so
Shannon Popkin (29:29) Bye.
Yeah,
I’ve been convicted with like, I really live like it’s true that God has the power? Or do I feel like, like with this political thing, do I feel like we’ve got to have the power? Right, yeah, just that little thing. But it’s very disruptive in our culture. I don’t know how it is there, but well, you don’t have that there, I’m sorry. You don’t have these elections, but it’s very…
Rachel Jones (29:50) Mm-hmm. Just that little thing.
Mm.
We’ve been watching.
We’ve been watching. Yeah, mean, yeah, British people have their opinions too.
Shannon Popkin (30:06) yeah, I bet. it’s just very disruptive. Yeah. yeah. I’m sure.
I’m sure the whole world’s looking in, and I’m sure it looks, maybe there’s a little more objectivity looking from the outside in, right? But it’s very disruptive and it can feel like we’ve got to rise up and take the power. Whichever side you land on, that’s really the instinct is we’ve got to rally, we’ve got to this and that. Rather than relying on like,
Jesus spoke, he said, shut up and come out of him, right? And he has power not just in these small interactions, but over the whole world. I just always love the part where Jesus is in the garden of Gethsemane and the army comes and there’s probably about 300 of them. And he says, who are you seeking? They say, Jesus of Nazareth. He says, I am he or I am, and they fall all down on top.
Rachel Jones (31:01) Yeah
Shannon Popkin (31:01) of each other, like all the clattering of army, of
their military gear. And I just think that is so, he has so much power just in his word. And do I really live like that’s true? If I believe that he has this power, why am I fretting? Why am I anxious? Why am I losing sleep? And I’m not a very political.
minded person. I don’t understand a lot of it. So I don’t talk about that publicly, but there are certain things in my, in my little sphere of influence, like whether it’s theology or doctrine or, convincing, someone that argues a different position, why do I, why do I feel like it’s all up to me he is so powerful. I can trust him. can rest in that. Like, I think that
This was very jarring in this synagogue It needs to jar me when I’m the one who the one being influenced by the world or even the enemy. So then it needs to be jarring, but it also needs to as one who’s under this king and in this kingdom, it needs to just settle me. And the word of God has so much power.
to do that. So Rachel, thank you so much for this beautiful conversation. It’s been amazing, So tell us where we can find your brand new book.
Rachel Jones (31:59) Amen.
Yeah, you can get the Quiettime Kickstart from the Goodbook company or from Amazon or from, lots of Christian retailers.
Shannon Popkin (32:15) All right, But thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.