Have you ever wondered whether the church is a safe place for people with messy stories? Do some sins seem more forgivable than others?
Julie joins Shannon to share the story behind the chapter featured in Kinda Judgy. She opens up about her unplanned pregnancy, the shame she experienced, the day she stood before her church to read a public confession, and how she eventually discovered that God’s mercy was far greater than her guilt.
Together, they look at Jesus’s encounters with Rahab and the sinful woman at Simon’s table, discovering how His mercy transforms both those who feel judged and those who are tempted to judge.
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Kinda Judgy
If you’re tired of being judged—or even more tired of being so judgy, grab a copy of my new book with Moody Publishers: Kinda Judgy: Finding Mercy for Myself and Others in Six Stories of the Bible.
As we step into the stories of Noah, Rahab, Jonah and others, we’ll not only get biblical clarity on judgment and mercy, we’ll encounter the One who melts our judgy hearts with His lavish mercy.
Ready to lay down your gavel? Come find mercy for yourself and others in this six week study.
Free: Judgy Heart Check
Get five sets of probing questions and Bible verses that help you think through those judgy situations you’re facing from a truth-saturated, humble perspective. Get the download here.
More from the Judgy Series
You can browse the episodes from the series on this page.
Key Takeaways
- Judgment from the church community overshadowed Julie’s sense of God’s mercy.
- The blood of Jesus is the only thing that cleanses and heals us.
- Judgment should not be the end of the conversation; it should lead to compassion and support.
- God can use anyone, regardless of their past, to fulfill His purpose.
- In moments of crisis, we should practice the gospel by offering love and support.
- Understanding our own sinfulness helps us to empathize with others.
- The church should be a place of healing and forgiveness, not condemnation.
- Personal growth in faith often comes from recognizing God’s mercy in our lives.
Episode Chapters & Transcript
00:00 Growing Up in Church Culture
02:58 Navigating Relationships and Early Challenges
05:54 Public Confession and Its Impact
08:59 Experiencing Judgment and Mercy
12:01 The Journey to Parenthood
15:04 Planning a Wedding Amidst Challenges
21:03 The Stigma of Unplanned Pregnancy
22:35 The Tension of Acceptance
25:31 Understanding Sin and Stigma
30:28 Navigating Relationships and Decisions
34:07 The Power of Love and Support
39:42 God’s Mercy vs. Human Judgment
41:23 Personal Growth and Faith
The following transcript is AI generated. Please excuse any errors or inconsistencies.
Read the Transcript
Shannon Popkin (00:00)
So did you start dating the pastor’s son when you were like in high school or whatever?
Julie (00:05)
I did, yeah. He was actually 15, I was 16. And
Shannon Popkin (00:10)
Okay.
Julie (00:11)
yeah, we started dating in youth group, so, yeah.
Shannon Popkin (00:14)
Okay, and did you have other family that went to that church?
Julie (00:20)
Yeah, so we grew up there. And then my husband’s, of course his parents, went to that church.
Shannon Popkin (00:29)
Okay,
Shannon Popkin (00:30)
so you were deeply embedded, deeply ingrained into that church
Julie (00:33)
Yes, I was. Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (00:35)
culture,
Julie (00:36)
Yeah, It was a big, know, fairly big church and we had just an incredible youth group. we were there two or three nights a week. We were just always in church. yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (00:49)
That’s, yeah. Who was your
Shannon Popkin (00:51)
Sure.
Julie (00:52)
Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (00:54)
So tell us what happened then when you were in high school.
Julie (00:59)
well, we started dating everything was very slow. didn’t have, you know, cell phones back then and he didn’t even have his license till a year after we were dating or so. But to make long story short, we were planning on getting married and I ended up
Julie (01:12)
getting pregnant before we were married. And
Shannon Popkin (01:17)
at how old were you?
Julie (01:19)
at that time I was 22. So we had been dating about five and a half years by that time. And we met with one of the pastors.
Julie (01:36)
which went very, very well. He was very gracious. We were very repentant. We knew this was wrong and our hearts were in the right place. Definitely. can I can say that. But one thing that we had to do was we had to write a letter to the church and we had to basically state what happened, that we were sorry, that type of thing.
Julie (02:03)
and we had a choice to either read that letter ourselves, which was absolutely terrifying to do that. And, you know, at that age in front of however many people were there at that time, or someone else could read it. And so we wrote a letter, Master, Pastor to read it. And
Julie (02:28)
He was wonderful. He was very kind, very, he was very non-judgmental to us, very helpful. But that night it was, we sat in the back of church and the letter was read. And a lot of people came up to us and were kind, but there were people that gave us looks.
Julie (02:52)
you know, at that time it was very hard. And now that I’m older and hopefully a little wiser, I, some of those people maybe didn’t know what to say to us.
Shannon Popkin (03:02)
Well,
Shannon Popkin (03:03)
let’s just talk about that practice of reading a letter publicly. Like that isn’t really done anymore, at least not that I know of.
Julie (03:10)
No. No.
Shannon Popkin (03:13)
And my heart, when I hear that, I just put myself in your shoes and I just kind of wilt, know, like wither. Like there’s this shame
Julie (03:23)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (03:24)
of making your sin known publicly. And it’s like
Shannon Popkin (03:28)
none of us would say we’re without sin, right? And
Julie (03:32)
Right? Right?
Shannon Popkin (03:33)
none of us would even say we’re without sexual sin. None of us can make it to the finish line without any lustful thought. And Jesus said that lust was the same as committing adultery. So none of us are without sin. And yet, there is, I just feel with you, why would my sin need to be like,
Shannon Popkin (03:57)
held up publicly. What do you think
Julie (04:00)
right.
Shannon Popkin (04:00)
was the mindset and how do you see that as having shifted? mean, you’re not a theologian, I’m not asking you, but you did experience it. So what are your thoughts on that?
Julie (04:13)
The way it was explained to us was because eventually I would be showing it was going to be very noticeable. So they had to address it because of that because it was something that was very visible. And honestly, I don’t know if there was scripture at that time to back that up or not. I don’t remember. All I know is that it was very much
Julie (04:41)
because I was gonna show. And it was hard because there was other things going on in the church at the time. There was things that happened and there was incidents where my mother-in-law was in the kitchen. She worked in the kitchen a lot and they had their purses in a cabinet and they went out and served a meal like in the…
Julie (05:03)
auditorium and they came back and the purses were gone and they ended up finding out who it was and what happened but that was never addressed that wasn’t something that had to be talked through.
Shannon Popkin (05:14)
that didn’t, I don’t know, maybe that didn’t show. And so it’s like hidden sins
Julie (05:18)
Right, right, right.
Shannon Popkin (05:21)
are somehow differentiated
Julie (05:24)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (05:25)
And, you know, I’m thinking of the story of Simon and the sinful woman, you know, most likely a prostitute, and they all lived in the same town. knew her when she entered the room where Jesus is reclined at the table.
Shannon Popkin (05:40)
they recognized her immediately. They knew she was a notorious sinner. You know, they probably passed her on the street earlier that day. And what’s interesting is Jesus doesn’t call out her sin. And yet he does call out the hidden sin of Simon the Pharisee who’s saying in his own head, he’s like, man, if this guy was a prophet, he would know who and what sort of woman this is.
Shannon Popkin (06:08)
And the implication is she’s a different sort than him. She’s a sinful woman and he’s not. And so in response, Jesus tells this story about these two debtors and they both have different amounts. One owes more. There’s a more costly sin than maybe the other, but he puts them side by side in the same story. Like they’re both in the same situation. They are debtors and they cannot pay. And so he kind of like, I mean, they’re noticing.
Shannon Popkin (06:37)
We’re talking about Simon and a sinful woman, and he puts the prostitute and the Pharisee in the same story. And so what he does call out, which I think is so intriguing, is the hidden sin. And so we can’t look at that story and say Jesus never calls out sin, because he did it. But…
Shannon Popkin (07:02)
I think he didn’t call out the womans sin because the whole point of us having all of these laws, the Jewish people lived by these laws, the whole point was the law led to Jesus and she was there. She was at his
Julie (07:14)
Right. Right.
Shannon Popkin (07:16)
feet. She was repentant before the Lord. And that’s kind of what I hear you saying is you were there. You were at the feet of Jesus. You were repentant and
Shannon Popkin (07:27)
So tell me about that repentance? Like did this, you know, awake in you a new realization of the mercy offered to you by Jesus, your savior?
Julie (07:38)
You know, it did, but it was really hard because of the judgment that I got. was, like I said, my father-in-law was a pastor and I really thought, I really seriously thought he was going to lose his job because of us. My parents were very prevalent in the church. People knew them. And so I was embarrassed. I was, I felt horrible. I felt so bad. And
Julie (08:04)
That just took over basically.
Shannon Popkin (08:07)
you
Julie (08:08)
it was just a really hard thing, know, hard thing to go through. And when I started showing, people, you know, would look at me. It never went away because all of a sudden, okay, I’m showing now, I’m getting bigger and bigger. It was very obvious, obviously. And…
Julie (08:28)
It wasn’t a situation where I had people. When I say people, mean, family were were good to us. But a lot of people in church who I expected to come alongside of us did not. And I I did feel shunned. So as far as feeling the mercy of God, I knew it was there. But the judgment I felt was so just crowded.
Julie (08:56)
over that.
Shannon Popkin (08:59)
Yeah, so there’s almost this sense of, you know, I just interviewed this other woman who was in the New Age movement for years, and she talked about being invited to a Bible study and not realizing it. She never would have gone if she knew it was a Bible study. And she walked into that room and she was so blindsided by the fact that these were Christians. She could not hear or see anything.
Shannon Popkin (09:23)
about Jesus that night. They were reading the Bible. They were singing worship songs. That was all like she was just trying to stay in the room. But she said that she left curious because she said they she met Jesus in them. They were so warm. They were so inviting. They were so welcoming to her. And that intrigued her enough. She saw in them something that was inviting. And so what I hear you saying is
Shannon Popkin (09:53)
It was sort of the opposite. Like you knew that you were welcome at the feet of Jesus, like the sinful woman, but what you met in the eyes and the responses of other people was exactly the opposite of that. What you
Julie (10:05)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (10:05)
met from God’s people was not the heart of Jesus, it was judgment.
Shannon Popkin (10:11)
The only thing that can solve the greatest problem that all of us face, and that is our sin, is the merciful love of Jesus.
Shannon Popkin (10:22)
And it just breaks my heart that one of his own children would know that mercy in her head, but experience something else in the context of the church setting. So, and I mean, you’re having a baby. There’s so much joy in that. There’s so much delight in, I mean,
Shannon Popkin (10:50)
Some women don’t have that privilege and they look in on that and think, I would love to have a baby. And this baby did nothing wrong. There’s no shame associated with this
Julie (11:01)
Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (11:02)
child. I mean, and that is not to say that we don’t fully agree that sex should be inside of marriage, right? You’re not, nobody’s denying that. Nor is anybody else denying that.
Shannon Popkin (11:19)
we’re not sinners. It’s like, yes, there is right and wrong. Yes, we have all sinned. Yes, you and your husband sinned at that point, but okay. So now what? And did you feel like it kept you from the joy of being new parents? And when did you get married in the process? Did it throw a damper on your wedding too?
Julie (11:47)
Yeah, so we actually found out that I was pregnant in September and we did not tell anybody for two months, which was devastating. And we finally did in November and my mom and stepdad said, you know, you need to get married very quickly.
Julie (12:08)
And so we did. like I said, we planned on getting married. So it wasn’t should we it was, okay, we have to work and get married sooner. And so, yeah, the wedding was a completely different story. We didn’t have a lot of say in the wedding. It was, you know, this is seriously this is the food we’re going to eat. This is what we’re going to do. It was very small. It was very much controlled. It was not at all what I
Julie (12:37)
would want, but we got married in December and then the following April, Alexis was born. And, you know, after we got married, things kind of calmed down a little bit. And when she was born, it was, it was beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful. It was like she was just, you know, just a light. She was, it was beautiful. And our family, you know, stood by us and
Julie (13:08)
and she was just a gift. She was an absolute gift. But getting to that point was one of the hardest things I’ve ever gone
Shannon Popkin (13:18)
I’m so sorry. That’s hard. When you think about those months planning your wedding and, you know, being it being planned for you, apparently, how do you how do you like what is your heart like what’s your visceral reaction when you even think of those months? Did you have moments of joy where there or did it was it just shrouded in shame the whole thing?
Julie (13:47)
You know, we did have moments of joy. And I knew as long as we were together, it was going to be okay. And I wanted to marry him. So that wasn’t an issue. It was just going to look a little different. We were going to have a baby right away.
Julie (14:03)
There was a lot of unknowns. I’m a planner, I’m a detailed person. So to realize you’re pregnant, you’re gonna get married in six weeks, you’re gonna have a baby in four months, you do it, you make it happen. But looking back, that was very, very hard for me.
Julie (14:21)
I was working full time, so I had to just keep going all the time. I was planning a wedding, I was gonna have a baby, I was working, and we were looking for a house. I mean, I didn’t have a lot of time to digest and to really process what was going on, so.
Shannon Popkin (14:43)
I’m curious about those two months that you waited to tell anyone. Does that mean anyone, just the two of you knew?
Julie (14:51)
Correct, that was just the two of us. Yeah, we were so scared because of the, like I said, the fact that my father-in-law was a pastor. My stepdad especially was extremely strict. I knew that we would be viewed differently and that was hard. That was really, really hard to face all of that.
Shannon Popkin (15:16)
had you seen anyone else who had to read a similar letter?
Julie (15:20)
Yes, we did. So we were very aware of what we were going to most likely have to go through.
Shannon Popkin (15:31)
residents had been set.
Julie (15:33)
Yeah.
Shannon Popkin (15:34)
So, and maybe this is too personal, but did you repent before the Lord and just not sleep together anymore during that time?
Julie (15:44)
That’s correct. Yes. Yes, we did
Shannon Popkin (15:45)
Okay, okay.
Julie (15:46)
not. We I mean, immediately we were like, this is this was wrong. We you know, we were we were very sorry, very repentant. And that yeah, that is correct. And I think that, you know, part of I guess the shame I guess you can say is my mom, we told them the very beginning of November, and we got married in December. And I think part of it was just let’s just kind of get you married.
Julie (16:12)
for lack of better word. And I, in my mind, I thought, you know, can we just wait even another month, get past Christmas? And it was no, we just, she didn’t say this, but it was almost like you just need to get married because of what you’ve done. And so, yeah, six weeks, we planned a wedding in six weeks and got married.
Shannon Popkin (16:36)
So
Shannon Popkin (16:36)
let’s explore that a second. You just need to get married because of what you’ve done. What is, what’s, that is just a really pregnant statement. What does that mean?
Julie (16:48)
I think what that means is if you, the faster you get married, the faster maybe you’re gonna look better because now you’re married and you’re pregnant. Instead of, if we waited even until January, which was my desire, it’s not gonna look good. It’s not gonna look good in the church. You’re gonna be still dating and pregnant. You need to hurry up and get.
Julie (17:17)
and get married. And
Shannon Popkin (17:18)
Get rid of the stigma.
Julie (17:20)
yeah, yeah, that’s really what it was. no,
Shannon Popkin (17:24)
which is so, go ahead.
Julie (17:26)
was just saying, I was not, I was a very compliant person. And so I didn’t argue. I did not talk back to parents. I didn’t, because I felt such a huge amount of guilt, even though I knew that.
Julie (17:46)
God had forgiven us, I still felt the guilt because I think I knew I knew what was coming.
Julie (17:54)
And so I knew it wasn’t going to be an easy path.
Shannon Popkin (18:04)
I think what intrigues me is, know, I’ve just, my heart has been soaking in this story of Simon and the simple woman that’s the chapter I’m working on right now. And what I think is so intriguing is, there was a lot of tension in that room. She didn’t belong in there, you know, these are the religious leaders and she has crept in and she had a lot of stigma with her. And what intrigues me is Jesus did not, he just let the tension hang.
Shannon Popkin (18:33)
He didn’t swat her away. He didn’t say, get out. He didn’t even go, he didn’t leave the room and go let her have her own little private come to Jesus moment where she can sob and everything. It all happened right there with some people who are looking on her with a lot of disgust and judgment. And Jesus was not about to relieve that tension because it’s like the people who are disgusted,
Shannon Popkin (18:59)
with someone coming to Jesus, someone on their knees, someone crying. The people who look at that and they’re uncomfortable because there is evidence of sin here, those people, wanna exclude the sinner, but when you exclude the sinner, you exclude yourself because you too are a sinner.
Shannon Popkin (19:20)
Simon said, she’s a sinner, she’s that sort. And she’s like, no, you’re the same sort. Both of you are the same sort. And so this idea of trying to get rid of the stigma, get you married as fast as you can so we can get rid of the, well, the only thing that gets rid of our sin, the only thing that gets rid of our stigma.
Shannon Popkin (19:40)
is the blood of Jesus, that’s it. And
Julie (19:41)
Right, right.
Shannon Popkin (19:44)
if there’s somebody who is not rejoicing at a sinner receiving mercy, like the only way that we’re not rejoicing with that other sinner is when we forget we’re too, we too are a sinner, you know? And so I think there’s something really
Julie (20:03)
Right, yeah.
Shannon Popkin (20:07)
beautiful about
Shannon Popkin (20:09)
these are the kinds of situations that help us to deal with, what do we really believe about sin?
Julie (20:18)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (20:19)
And do we really think we can clean ourselves up really? Do we? And
Julie (20:23)
Right. Right.
Shannon Popkin (20:25)
just get her married, get done with the stigma. Do we really think that’s the solution? Or do
Julie (20:31)
Uh-huh.
Shannon Popkin (20:32)
we truly believe that Jesus is
Shannon Popkin (20:35)
blood is what cleans us and what heals us and that He welcomes sinners. Like what do we truly believe?
Shannon Popkin (20:42)
Were there any other discrepancies between what you knew to be true and what you experienced?
Julie (20:54)
I mean, I think it was just so legalistic.
Julie (20:57)
you know, wasn’t were.
Julie (21:00)
we forgive you as well. Let’s move forward together. There wasn’t any of that. It was.
Shannon Popkin (21:05)
No, okay, nobody
Shannon Popkin (21:06)
said, let’s move forward together.
Julie (21:10)
Our family did, but there was, we didn’t have, we didn’t have like a mentor. We didn’t have anybody who, I can’t say nobody, very few people that just said, okay, this is, is, you know, how you need to move forward. You know, it was just more, okay, now you’re married, now you’re gonna have a baby. And I, you know, I never really felt, for a very long time, I did not feel.
Julie (21:42)
you know, good enough or, you know, I was kind of, it wasn’t said, but I felt labeled. And so as, you know, when we had our second daughter and, you know, the kids got older, I think some of that.
Julie (22:00)
dissipated a little bit. But at the time when I really needed the support, when we both really needed support, you we didn’t really have it. was okay. Like I said, I was working, I was doing these things, you’ve to get ready, you’re having
Shannon Popkin (22:16)
You know, what would have been great if we’re gonna make this thing public, you know, we’re gonna read a public letter. There’s two sides of that public letter. There’s like the one who’s reading the letter, there’s the one who’s giving the information, and then there’s the recipient. And I do think we’ve gotten better at this in the time that’s lapsed. But what would have been great is if…
Shannon Popkin (22:44)
your church family had regularly told you, you are loved, you are forgiven. The gospel, here’s what the gospel says, and I want to proclaim that to you, and I want to remind you of it, like to take your face in their hands and say, this is why Jesus died. He died that you could be forgiven, that you could be
Shannon Popkin (23:09)
set free of any condemnation or any scorn.
Shannon Popkin (23:14)
these moments, like let’s say your husband expresses his, tells you about his infidelity, or his porn addiction, or your kids tell you they’re pregnant, or they have slept with their boyfriend or their girlfriend. These are the moments that we get to practice the gospel. And the gospel is not just for,
Shannon Popkin (23:37)
our first come to Jesus moments. The gospel reframes the ways that we think about each other, the ways that we see ourselves. And these are the moments when we rehearse what is true, right? So if you had a young person in your life who was going through this,
Shannon Popkin (24:00)
they were, suppose they were thinking about getting married. They’re expecting a baby trying to decide what would you, what’s your advice for them? what, what should frame our decision-making in that moment?
Julie (24:14)
Well, for one, would tell somebody, if…
Julie (24:16)
If they plan on getting married anyways, if they really truly love, you know, their boyfriend, girlfriend, yes, you should get married. Life is going to look a little different, but it’s going to be okay. It really is going to be okay. But I would also say if you weren’t planning on getting married,
Julie (24:33)
if you don’t.
Julie (24:37)
want to marry this person, don’t do it just for the child I think you really need to look at each individual case and realize you have a child. You’re a growing human being.
Julie (24:51)
You really need to create a loving home for that child.
Shannon Popkin (25:00)
Yeah, yeah, this is not just about getting rid
Julie (25:02)
So.
Shannon Popkin (25:02)
of some momentary stigma. This is about raising a human, right? And so use all of your other good decision-making
Julie (25:07)
Right, right.
Shannon Popkin (25:10)
skills and wisdom to make the decision about marriage
Julie (25:13)
Great.
Shannon Popkin (25:13)
that is separate from your decision. You know, I hope you would choose life in that situation. And I’m so thankful that you guys did. What advice though would you give to maybe a friend whose daughter just told her she’s pregnant? Like, how would you coach her?
Julie (25:33)
I would really encourage her to just love, to love her daughter, to be there for her, to embrace her, I would have given anything to just have numerous people, you know, put their arms around me. And most likely that person knows, they know that
Julie (25:59)
this isn’t what they should have done. They know that life is gonna look different. Most of the time they don’t need to be told that. They just need somebody to come alongside of them and to love them.
Shannon Popkin (26:12)
Now,
Shannon Popkin (26:13)
I will interject. think there are times that people, you know, I’ve actually mentored women in Bible study settings or wherever that they didn’t know that was that sex is for marriage. Like we’re in a culture where we’re kind of really beyond that. And so I don’t wanna say we should never,
Julie (26:32)
Yeah, yeah, that’s true.
Shannon Popkin (26:35)
we should make all assumptions, but what I hear you saying is that
Shannon Popkin (26:43)
Judgment is not the end of the conversation. know, like that’s, this is like the end of the conversation is Jesus. That’s where it always has to lead
Julie (26:53)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (26:53)
to Jesus and how does he respond? And yes, he is the judge over all of us. He’s the one we will stand before. But
Julie (27:04)
night.
Shannon Popkin (27:04)
like when you say you would have loved to have had, like did you just never, you didn’t even have people hugging you or?
Julie (27:13)
I mean, yeah, we did. There wasn’t like there wasn’t anybody.
Julie (27:19)
And you know, it’s different. It’s different because we didn’t have email back then. We didn’t have cell phones. We didn’t have the constant communication that we have now. And we did have people that loved on us and encouraged us. But I think I felt more of the shame. They were actually the minority did that. The minority.
Shannon Popkin (27:40)
Was there ever someone
Shannon Popkin (27:42)
who just was passing you in the church hallway, someone maybe that you didn’t know who came up and said, I’m so proud of you. Thank you for sharing. We love you. We’re here to support you. Was there any, was there ever, okay.
Julie (27:56)
No, no, there wasn’t anybody that did that.
Julie (28:02)
And I think some of it was the way people were taught in that church. was, like I said, was legalistic. It was you did wrong, period. It wasn’t a culture or atmosphere of encouragement and love. It was if you did something good, if you did something right, that was great, but that wasn’t our case.
Shannon Popkin (28:27)
Well, there is in me, like I have this is why I’m writing this book, because I feel like I am the keeper of the lines between right and wrong. I need everybody to know, like that line is there. And please, I’m the keeper. If someone has stepped over, I
Julie (28:42)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (28:42)
feel this tension of like somebody’s got to let them know, right? and it probably should be me. I feel that in me. And maybe you have now felt that too,
Shannon Popkin (28:51)
I think as parents, there’s just something in us that’s like, they need to know that they’ve done wrong. And yet the proportion between them needing to know that they’ve done wrong and them needing to know that Jesus loves and forgives them is so tipped. What they need is so much more of the mercy. And like our God lavishes people with mercy, you know? He is, it’s like just the time
Shannon Popkin (29:19)
tiniest moment of repentance and he just floods them. It’s so disproportionate. It’s not he does not wait like let’s see I’m gonna give you a few years and if y’all will clean
Julie (29:31)
Uh-huh.
Shannon Popkin (29:31)
your lives up and then maybe we’ll have we’ll talk like I’m thinking of the story of Rahab. That’s another story. I’m using in this book. She is a prostitute, you know, and
Shannon Popkin (29:42)
these two men come and stay with her and she is surrounded by people. She doesn’t know right from wrong. She doesn’t know God. All she knows is a couple stories she’s heard about him. He is the one who busts slaves out and he is the, you know, he’s to be feared and she’s willing to fear him. And that’s all she knows. And she says to these two, you know, spies who I think God sent.
Shannon Popkin (30:07)
them in on a rescue mission to get her. She says to them, can I switch sides? The only thing that she has done is waived her white flag of surrender and proved her loyalty to God. Like, I fear you. I elevate your opinion over what my whole community is saying. Everybody else is trying to board up the city.
Shannon Popkin (30:32)
this is not a God that we’re going to surrender to. And she’s like, well, how about me? I would like to switch sides. And God ushers her out. I mean, the city is falling, the battle is raging, and these two spies, come in and they walk her out, her and her family. They get her out and she is not left outside the camp, like just, you know, she’s the prostitute the mercy case that we, no, she is an integral, integral.
Shannon Popkin (30:58)
person in their community and becomes one of the mothers of Jesus, you know? And so that’s you,
Julie (31:05)
Thank
Shannon Popkin (31:05)
you, there was never a point where you needed to be outside the camp. Like, let’s clean you up. No, the moment that you and your husband said, God, I mean, you were already practicing repentance by the time for two months, you know, before you told anyone of this sin, you were already broken.
Shannon Popkin (31:25)
And if God accepts you and floods you with mercy, what are the rest of the people doing? Why is there this disparity
Julie (31:36)
I need to
Shannon Popkin (31:37)
between the way God treats
Julie (31:39)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (31:39)
sin and the way his people treats sin? That is the problem, and that is why we are told, do not judge by Jesus.
Julie (31:49)
I, one thing I do think about is now that I’m older and have gone through some things, you know, I’m really, I’m really careful to not judge. I’m very aware that there’s two sides to every story. And because I was so severely judged, it really challenges me to not judge, be very aware right away, to shut my mouth and to really, you know,
Julie (32:15)
think in my mind, you don’t know the whole story. You don’t know what’s going on. Do not judge that person. Just don’t do it. It’s not right, period. I’m very, very much aware of that because of what I went through.
Shannon Popkin (32:26)
mindful. Well, and
Shannon Popkin (32:29)
so much of judging has to do with judging motives and hurt and things that we just don’t have access to, right? And so you’re right,
Julie (32:36)
Right.
Shannon Popkin (32:37)
we should be careful. well, tell me about your relationship with Jesus right now.
Julie (32:46)
I have just grown so much. just, you know, he’s my heavenly father. He’s my husband. my husband has passed away.
Shannon Popkin (32:57)
I did not
Julie (32:57)
He had cancer.
Julie (32:59)
So despite, you know, just going through a lot of really tough things, I would say my relationship with the Lord is very strong.
Julie (33:06)
I’m reading through the Bible again this year and just amazed at how much, like he said, how much he loves us and how many times we sin over and over and over again and we do the same dumb thing over and over again and he still loves us. I’m very strong in my faith and…
Julie (33:31)
Love the church I go to, I’m involved in there, at that church. I’m starting myself with really good people. My girls are doing well, I’m very, very thankful for that.
Shannon Popkin (33:41)
good.
Shannon Popkin (33:42)
When I talked about the story of Rahab, was there anything in your heart that stirred? anything that seemed meaningful to you having overlaid your story?
Julie (33:50)
you know, I do. Well, I do think of her. have, and I think of her being a prostitute and then like I she was in the lineage of Jesus and how God, God can use anybody, anybody. does not matter what you’ve been through. And I think now that I’m older, I, I look back on that situation and for a long time, I thought God can never use me. He can’t because of this. And now I know that’s not true.
Julie (34:20)
He can use me. He can use me to encourage people to come alongside people and love them. yeah, so that’s what I would say about the rehab, about rehab and her story.
Shannon Popkin (34:31)
Beautiful.
Shannon Popkin (34:32)
I love that you’re living like it’s true.
Shannon Popkin (34:36)
All right, I’m.
Julie (34:38)
Thank you.
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